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{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"DiscussionForumPosting","headline":"`help()` on types has strange `(if defined)` notice for attributes that are defined","articleBody":"# Feature or enhancement\n\nLet's say we have a regular class and we call `help()` on it:\n\n```python\n\u003e\u003e\u003e class A: ...\n... \n\u003e\u003e\u003e help(A)\nHelp on class A in module __main__:\n\nclass A(builtins.object)\n |  Data descriptors defined here:\n |\n |  __dict__\n |      dictionary for instance variables (if defined)\n |\n |  __weakref__\n |      list of weak references to the object (if defined)\n```\n\nThis leaves a strange impression: what does it mean for `__dict__`? \n\n\u003e dictionary for instance variables (if defined)\n\nIt is defined. \n\nThe same for regular `__doc__`:\n\n```python\n\u003e\u003e\u003e A.__dict__['__dict__'].__doc__\n'dictionary for instance variables (if defined)'\n```\n\nLet's see what happens when `__dict__` and `__weakref__` are not defined:\n\n```python\n\u003e\u003e\u003e class B:\n...    __slots__ = ()\n... \n\u003e\u003e\u003e help(B)\nHelp on class B in module __main__:\n\nclass B(builtins.object)\n\n```\n\nAnd:\n\n```python\n\u003e\u003e\u003e B.__dict__['__dict__']\nTraceback (most recent call last):\n  File \"\u003cstdin\u003e\", line 1, in \u003cmodule\u003e\n    B.__dict__['__dict__']\n    ~~~~~~~~~~^^^^^^^^^^^^\nKeyError: '__dict__'\n```\n\nThe historical reason behind it is: https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/373c7412f297c375d84c5984f753557b441dd6f4#diff-1decebeef15f4e0b0ce106c665751ec55068d4d1d1825847925ad4f528b5b872R1356-R1377\n\nWhat do others think: should we remove `(if defined)` part? \nIf so, I have a PR ready.\n\n\u003c!-- gh-linked-prs --\u003e\n### Linked PRs\n* gh-112268\n* gh-112270\n* gh-112276\n\u003c!-- /gh-linked-prs --\u003e\n","author":{"url":"https://github.com/sobolevn","@type":"Person","name":"sobolevn"},"datePublished":"2023-11-19T12:20:48.000Z","interactionStatistic":{"@type":"InteractionCounter","interactionType":"https://schema.org/CommentAction","userInteractionCount":5},"url":"https://github.com/112266/cpython/issues/112266"}